[OpenTRV-interest] [OpenTRV-dev] Storage heating, dynamic demand, and OpenTRV

[Anthony Waite]

It's a relative measure? Surely overtime innovation will mean you invest less to achieve the same absolute return? Maybe I didn't understand the theory. Anyway, all sounds a bit Malthusian to me...

> On 8 Sep 2014, at 21:34, Damon Hart-Davis <EMAIL ADDRESS HIDDEN> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ve read that piece and don’t think I believe it by a long chalk.
> 
> PV EROEI in the UK is rather better than (say) tar sands in Canada.  I hope that we can do better but we can survive on it for now I think.
> 
> My family lives on about 1/2 or less of average energy (for example) even by UK standards, and don’t try convincing someone from the US that those are anything other than penury.
> 
> We’ve got some adjustments in expectations to make, but I think that PV and wind, with improvements to come, will be a positive piece of the picture.
> 
> Anything else is a counsel of despair IMHO!
> 
> Rgds
> 
> Damon
> 
> PS. OpenTRV aims to cheaply halve UK/EU ‘space hating intensity’ and with that sort of low-hanging fruit we really don’t need to throw energy around as we have been.
> 
> 
>> On 8 Sep 2014, at 16:28, John Stumbles <EMAIL ADDRESS HIDDEN> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 08/09/14 15:52, Bjorn Graabek wrote:
>>> Like you, I have been surprised at the variability of my solar PV
>>> system. It can go from maximum power to less than half that and back up
>>> again just from clouds passing by.
>>> In the past I thought that one of these days we could reach nirvana with
>>> renewable energy sources by having electrical cars making their
>>> batteries available for storing electricity for times when the renewable
>>> sources where not available. I've now had an electric car for a year and
>>> I no longer think that is a viable solution. I also don't think dynamic
>>> demand control in domestic homes is the way forward although some effort
>>> ought to be put into some sort of demand shifting so the peaks are no
>>> longer as high as they currently are.
>>> 
>>> I think the way forward is grid-sized batteries such as what AMBRI is
>>> working on http://www.ambri.com/
>>> These types of batteries don't need to have the same kind of energy
>>> density that batteries for cars need as they won't be moved about. And
>>> with less energy dense batteries, hopefully cheaper batteries can be used.
>>> 
>>> Having said that, even lots of huge batteries are obviously not enough
>>> when we are talking about country-size energy needs and energy
>>> availability shifting.
>> 
>> See the comment I made on Energy Return On Energy Invested in another part of this thread: Solar PV at our latitude just can't hack it, and adding storage to wind brings its EROEI down below viability unless you can get the energy cost of storage systems down by orders of magnitude below pumped storage.
>> 
>> http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/catch-22-of-energy-storage/
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> John Stumbles                                    http://stumbles.org.uk
>> :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
>> 
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